I have previously written a few posts about what I consider the optimal program and excessive volume, and I thought it was time to do another one. As more research is done, we are getting more information about what works for most people to build a muscle bigger and stronger – and on an individual level, I have a few insights on what will work specifically for yourself when the general guidelines don’t.
I don’t think it is very productive to get lost in the math of lifting, where some start looking at how much weight you are lifting in total (i.e. tonnage or volume-load as a function of reps x sets x load).
Tonnage or volume load doesn’t necessarily equate to hypertrophy.
Depending on various factors, it has been shown in research these last few years that regardless of load, as long as it is within the 40-85% of 1RM range, you will achieve hypertrophy on the last 5 or so reps of a set to failure.
I coined the term “effective reps” many years ago when I created Myo-reps, and other fitness authorities in the field have later adopted it or similar terms (e.g. stimulating reps) – see this article by Chris Beardsley of Strength and Conditioning Research and the accompanying image:
So from a mechanistic standpoint, you get equal growth from a set of 5 reps of 5RM as you will from a set of 20 reps of a 20RM, since you get 5 “effective” reps in both scenarios.
In practice, most people will notice that they get more growth out of certain rep ranges (as long as you don’t conflate the transient pump from higher reps with actual muscle growth).
As higher reps generate more fatigue (15-20+) and lower reps (1-5) will put more strain on joints and connective tissue, most people will gravitate towards the 6-12 rep range as a good compromise.
I would also add that picking exercises you enjoy doing will increase your gains, rather than sticking with some preconceived notion of what is the most effective.
Now, since going to absolute failure may require a lot more recovery time, you may be better off at 1 Rep In Reserve (RIR) as a general rule. You can easily compensate for the loss of effective reps by doing an additional set.
So e.g:
3 sets of 10 @ 10RM (5 effective reps per set) = 15 effective reps (in practice, you might get 10,8,7,6 reps due to accumulated fatigue)
4 sets of 9 @ 10RM (4 effective reps per set) = 16 effective reps (in practice, you might get 9,8,8,7 reps due to accumulated fatigue)
(or 1 Myo-rep set of 9 +3+3+2 @ 10RM = 15 effective reps) 
Unless you are doing Myo-reps and taking advantage of fatigue, you would want to keep fatigue from set to set limited by having at least 2-3mins of rest between sets.
Powerlifters may do several submaximal sets at higher loads to get in sufficient volume without putting excess strain on recovery, so that they can work at higher frequencies (as strength is also dependent on skill).
Example: 6-8 sets of 1-2 reps at 3-5RM
The infamous Norwegian Powerlifting Frequency Project showed the best gains in both strength and hypertrophy from training each lift 6x/week – but this was also a high volume study where the 3x/week group spent 3hrs per workout in the gym AND they were elite lifters.
As each workout generates a certain amount of fatigue (both local and central, or peripheral and CNS as they are usually referred to as), there will be a dose-response relationship that looks like a bell curve vs. a straight line that just tapers off – i.e. as you go beyond the 4-6 set per muscle group range you may incur a host of negative effects.
This was shown in the German Volume Study where 5 sets outperformed 10 sets:
So although some recent work has shown better gains from volumes in the range of 30-45+ sets per week, it may only work for a specific subset (younger men in low stress environment) for short periods of time (6-8 weeks), most other research AND my own experience shows that most lifters get way more gains out of way less time spent in the gym in the long term.
Conclusion and practical recommendations
For most lifters, each movement or muscle group can be worked around 2-3x/week at 3 hard, or 4 moderately hard (1RIR), or 5-6 submaximal sets each workout, in the rep range you prefer – but for most people it will be in the vicinity of 6-12 reps.
I do think spending some time at both higher than 12 and lower than 6 reps is wise on occasion, though.
Let your instincts guide you.
If you don’t yet have any instincts, try a training phase where you go from 20+ reps down to 1-3 reps in a progressive manner, to get the needed experience.
Lifting closer to a 1RM with low reps will usually yield the best gains in 1RM due to the principle of specificity, and skill (practicing the test more often) plays a big role in the ability to display true 1RM strength.
If you for various reasons want or need to get in a higher weekly volume (which may or may not be necessary as you get more advanced, a point of contention I won’t dig into here) you would probably be better off increasing frequency instead of volume per workout.
If you’re not consistently getting stronger (improving reps or adding weight) AND generally feeling under-recovered, you should reduce volume, frequency or both.
This goes for all of you who for whatever reason are suffering from compromised recovery, whether it be:
- sleep deprivation (personal experience from being a dad of a 1-year old who still wakes frequently through the night)
- calorie deficits (planned diets or unintentional undereating)
- poor stress management (work/study habits, not being able to say no, generally being a pessimist etc etc).
Hope you got something useful out of this, and let me know in the comments section if you have any questions.
Example of an upper body workout for someone who prefers low-medium reps (i.e. myself):
Bench Press:
2 sets @ 8RM – 1RIR (7, 5 reps)
paired with:
2 sets @ 12RM – 1-2RIR (10, 9 reps)
I increase the load next time when I hit a given upper range in reps (7 reps for bench, 11 reps for Face Pulls in this case)
—
Loaded Pushups
2 sets @ 10RM – 1RIR (9, 7 reps)
paired with
2 sets @ 8RM – 1RIR (7, 5 reps)
—
OHP (delts have already been hit with Face Pulls and Shoulder Pulls)
2 sets @ 8RM – 0-1RIR (8, 6 reps)
paired with
Chinups
3 sets @ 8RM – 1RIR (7, 5, 5 reps)
1 set @ 12RM – 1RIR
I will also auto-regulate volume by reducing sets if my performance drops (e.g. if I get 9 reps on the first set and only 4 reps on the second set), or stop all work for that muscle group if have regressed since last time (e.g. if I got 120kg for 6 reps on the first set of the previous workout and only get 5 reps this workout).
I may add in a set of arms if I feel like it, but contrary to popular belief – biceps and triceps actually take longer to recover than most other muscle groups and are already indirectly involved in pushing and pulling work, which is why some studies show no additional arm growth from adding e.g. biceps curls to a chin-up routine.
Iron de Paula
Hi Borge, long time reader.
So, for this population (average trainee, with a regular busy life) a frequency of 4-6 times per bodypart a week is overkill? Assuming low volume per session (2-5 sets) of course.
Also, I was somewhat curious about your hint that advanced trainees may not need to go towards these higher frequencies. Can you comment a bit about it?
Borge
I think someone with a busy life should be careful with frequency, as we have good data and experience showing how any training stimulus takes longer to recover in a high stress state – even if it’s just one set close to failure.
So I would generally advise that an intermediate lifter stays in the 2-3x/week range (per muscle group, so this could be an upper/lower split 4 days per week), and spread the weekly volume across those workouts. I.e. I think 4 sets 2x/week beats 2 sets 4x week, and 3 sets 3x/week is probably going to be pretty close to 4 sets 2x/week but some may find it slightly more productive from a skill-based perspective (getting stronger).
Dave
Hi Borge, writing you from italy. What do you think of working out only twice per week with 2 different full body routined for a small boned trainee? How would youbset it up? Thank. You
Borge
Sure, that should work just fine.
Set it up according to the recommendations in the article. I can’t really go into specifics or set you up a program without knowing anything about you, and I also can’t set up programs for free for everyone who asks – I’m sure you understand that 🙂
Roy Mohimi
Hi Borge,
I hope you are well, just wanted to pick your brains on how an intermediate lifter with a wife and two young children, who works in a warehouse 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and can only train 3 to 4 days a week can organise his routine to maximise growth as optimal as possible. I would really appreciate volume and frequency recommendations.
Much appreciated.
Roy
Borge
Each muscle group every 4-5 days or so (if you train 3 days per week), so either a push-pull or upper-lower split. 2-3 sets per muscle group per workout.
Rockman
Borge which are the differences in terms of application between myo reps and dante trudel’s dc style?
Dante’s approach is to failure and not autoregulate itself.
Other differences?
Ricky
I love all the work you put out! I always go hunting in the comments for your back and forths with other people. Haha. But I have a quick question with regards to understanding research. If in a study it shows that x muscle csa increased by 5% what does that actually equate to in practice? Like if you had a 15 inch bicep. Does that mean you’ll see a .75 inch increase? I know when you measure your arm you’re measuring your tricep as well but I’m just trying to think of the simplist way to ask the question. Thanks again!
Borge
It’s a very difficult question to answer, since – as you so correctly state – the arm is made up of more than just the biceps muscle. There’s also the brachialis, the triceps, the humerus, the skin and the subcutaneous fat layer. So a 5% CSA increase, which is an increase in the circumference of the biceps itself, wouldn’t necessarily register on the total arm measurement – since it is also a relative increase, i.e. if the original measurement was 10cm^2 a 5% increase would make it 10.05cm^2 and not push that measurement tape out to any visible degree.
I seem to recall one study in women showing that an increase of 5cm^2 over a 6 month training program, which would be up to a 50% increase in CSA for some, translated to a 1cm increase in circumference. That’s the closest estimate I can give. 🙂
Sascha
Great article and good to see you writing again. It’s a rare combination of scientific understanding, real world coaching experience, and common sense that makes your work outstanding in this “industry”.
Keep it up!
Btw: Did you remove the large client testimonial page from your norwegian site? It was awesome and inspiring.
Borge
Thank you for the kind words 🙂
I removed the testimonials as to not clutter up the page too much, but working on new pages where I will put testimonials on a separate page instead of on the Coaching-page itself.
Per
Hey Børge. I had you as a coach back in 2015. You designed a 6 day full-body split, which i have followed since. I consider myself intermediate, but in the upper range for a few exercises. Will you now instead advise me to follow e.g the upper/lower split or flexible split? (from the myo-reps e-book) The question is whether I get as much benefit from the training with less volume? I will also add that i work as a 100 % fulltime nurse, with day and evening shifts.
Borge
For 6 days per week, go with an upper/lower – especially if you have that type of stress in your life. Depending on work capacity and volume tolerance (i.e. whether you see a typical set as 10,6,4 or 10,10,9) – the latter may indicate you should do a push/pull/legs split, so lower frequency and slightly higher volume per workout. Gaining strength consistently from workout to workout is the best proxy for what to do here.
Per
Thanks for answer Børge, really appreciate it. After reading your comment from Myoreps e-book: ” Are your gains in the gym the last few months or years, in line with the time and effort spent there?” you got me to put things in perspective. I have been training almost everyday for years, just taking days off now and then (rarely). I have been gaining for sure, but not enough for the time spent there. Depending on job and the shifts (Late–>early), which give bad sleep, my recovery varies a lot. But to the point: If i can get same results by reducing volume or frequency, i would really like to try that. I would prefer 5, minimum 4 days per week. Would you recommend upper/lower then? Monday-friday, weekend off repeat? Or should i go for the flexible program?
Borge
Yes, also see other comments here, an upper/lower or push/pull 4 days per week is plenty.
Jan
Borge which are the differences between myo reps and Dante’dc rest pause?
Dante’s one reach failure generally for 3 times.. and myo reps is autoregulated.
But other differences?
Borge
DC training chases fatigue, Myo-reps manages fatigue to get in more effective reps – that is the main difference. You don’t need to go to failure on Myo-reps, and proper fatigue management requires you to stay within 1RIR at all times – whereas failure is encouraged in DC training. Myo-reps also uses slightly shorter rest periods (3-5 deep breaths vs 10 in DC-training) to maintain the muscle activation levels high (as they tend to drop off when you go to 30sec rest periods).
Generally speaking, DC training is used at lower reps (8-12RM) whereas Myo-reps is used at 12RM+ most of the time (although you can obviously use it successfully at lower reps, too).
Jan
Normally how much times is required for lower down the activation of a muscle when we reach failure (or near to it)?
If I remember correctly, with a 10″ rest, atp is recharged about 50%. ??
So probably of you want to mantain an high activation, drop sets with no rest is the best way..
Borge
Activation from the last set, if you approached failure, will subside after 20-30 secs and you will need to do more reps to get back up – but the same rules as stated above will apply, i.e. the final 4-5 reps of any set taken to failure (or 3-4 reps of any set taken 1 rep from failure etc) will be “effective/stimulating” so both strategies will work:
10 +3+3+3+2 (managing fatigue, 1RIR, 15 effective reps) vs. 11+5+3 (reaching failure, 13 effective reps)
– but as you can see, by managing fatigue you will most likely get in slightly more effective reps and also recover faster.
Christian
Hello and well met from Germany!
I am a 36 year old father of 2 children, with one child still waking us up at nights on a more or less daily basis. So I am usually a bit sleep deprived yet I am still motivated to train and I really like to workout, yet the gains are coming very slowly. Arms for example basically have stopped growing after like 4-5 months of training and I started training like 16 months ago. Gotta admit though that I spent quite a lot time dieting since I was a fat slob at 1,87cm 100kg at some point 🙂
So I am wondering what kind of full body workout you would recommend for my circumstances?
I like the concept of full body since I can’t hit the gym more often than 3-4 times a week.
I would love to put on more size, but yet I still like to get stronger. So naturally, I prefer barbell movements and body weight movements. Dips, Chin Ups, Benchpress, Rows, Military Press and stuff like that.
Would you still recommend the modified push/pull for example which was published on t-nation in 2018?
Borge
Stress and sleep deprivation -> lower frequency, so if you want to hit the gym 3-4x/week I would try the push/pull or upper/lower split depending on what muscle groups you want to focus on.
Arms or any muscle group for that matter will not grow optimally while dieting, but arms are – as mentioned in the article – already hit indirectly from all the pushing and pulling, so you could actually try not training them directly for a while and see what happens.
David
Borge great article!
Well done!
I’m in the SSD group (Abel) and Hypercarnivore (Don) so in this last year I’ve follow a lot of your work!
One thing that you ever not mentioned, do you think that myo reps are usefull with slower speed of movement?
I use a slow cadence due to joints problems, so I can use less weight.
Using a slower cadence (4-5 second up, 5-6 seconds down) I can train without pain, and for me is a good way to progress.
Using this slow cadence I use lower reps, around 4-6 total, that permit me to use a TUT of 40-60 seconds.
Myo reps with slow cadence, mantaining costant tension on the muscle, and without failure.. yes or useless?
John
Borge great article!
Well done!
I’m in the SSD group (Abel) and Hypercarnivore (Don) so in this last year I’ve follow a lot of your work!
One thing that you ever not mentioned, do you think that myo reps are usefull with slower speed of movement?
I use a slow cadence due to joints problems, so I can use less weight.
Using a slower cadence (4-5 second up, 5-6 seconds down) I can train without pain, and for me is a good way to progress.
Using this slow cadence I use lower reps, around 4-6 total, this permit me to use a TUT of 40-60 seconds.
Myo reps with slow cadence, mantaining costant tension on the muscle, and without failure.. yes or useless?
Borge
Yes. I do lean towards more explosive concentric and slower eccentric, but with Myo-reps I think the explosive concentric is less important.
John
So I can use the same principle of myo reps with slow cadence?
Basic guidelines
Do the activation set with 1RIR, then
Stopping the mini-sets always 1 rep before failure, and stopping the “global” set when I can’t repeat the same reps of the previous mini-sets.
Probably with a slow cadence, something linke this:
5 reps (activation)
3-5 breath
2 reps
3-5 breaths
2 reps
3-5 breath
1 rep
Stop
Is it right, or I’ve forgot/err something?
I ask this because I dont know if with slow cadence the need for rest between mini set is the same, or something else would be different.
Thanks Borge!
Borge
Yes, that’s fine. The slower speed doesn’t change anything.
Pat
Long time reader, and very long time trainee 😉 Looking to myo reps to be a joint and fatigue saver. I train 4 days on an upper lower split using injury friendly compounds on a heavy/medium rotation and plan on incorporating myo reps. Would appreciate your critique on the below setup
Push
Floorpress 3×5-7 Alternated with Incline Bench for 3x 8-12 on medium day
DB Bench 3×12-15
Lateral Raise Myo Reps
OH Tri Ext Myo Reps/Pushdowns Myo Reps
Legs & Back
TBDL 3×5-7 on Heavy Day 3×8-12 on medium day
KB Swings 3 Sets
Leg Ext Myo Reps
Pulldowns/Seated Rows Myo reps
Hammer Curls Myo Reps
Calf Raises Myo Reps
After 30 plus years of training I’m hoping one upper body strength move and one lower body strength move combined with myo reps allows me to continue training – Realistically as I’m in my fifties I hope to hold what I have gained in LBM.
Some days are tight for time so I can split the legs and back workout into two days if need be.
Borge
I know nothing about you, e.g. training age/level, your work capacity and volume tolerance, your power profile – so a training consult is beyond the scope of this comments section. I wouldn’t set a program up like this, but that’s just me. If you have my e-book you will see how I program Myo-reps from a meta perspective, that’s the best tip I can give you, and – if you keep getting stronger and bigger without any aches or pains, then that is your best indicator of how well the program is working for you.
Pat
Ok Borge, thanks for the reply.
Borge
Sorry I couldn’t be of more help, but I think the number 1 mistake people make is thinking that there is a program (or diet plan for that matter) out there that will fix everything. Not only do you need to do a lot of experimentation with the principles mentioned in the article, but you also need to monitor and adjust over time. When I’m working with a client, I will do 2 weeks of testing, then the remaining 6-10 weeks of just that – looking at how things are progressing and making the proper changes along the way. So showing me a random program with no further context is – as you hopefully understand – impossible to troubleshoot.
Pat
Yes, fair point re context and I fully understand.
Denis
Hello Børge, I’ve recently discovered your website and I’ve been reading your articles like crazy ever since.
I’ve been on Push/Pull/Legs 2x a week for 3 years now and since you mentioned 6x a week full body split, I’ve been interested in it. How would you go about it?
Borge
Most of the time, I wouldn’t recommend it – as it both requires you are at least intermediate-advanced with 2 years consistent training, and also that you have everything in your life in order (stress management, sleep, nutrition, hormones, health).
But if you fulfill all these criteria, then you would simply divide the exercises and volume from your current split into the full-body split. Depending on how you feel and how progress is, you can consider adding volume here and there.
So e.g. if you are doing 4 sets of bench press and 3 sets of incline DB press 2x/week currently (14 sets/week), then you would set up an A/B program of 3 sets of bench press for the A program and 2 sets of incline DB press for the B program (yielding 15 sets/week).
Denis
Thanks for the reply, I’m gonna have fun with designing the routine.
Denis
Hey Børge! I’ve almost designed the routine but I have a question regarding myo reps since you are expert on them. I’ll definitely use them on biceps, been also thinking about chest flys, medial/rear delts, shrugs and maybe on lats and some variation of rows. What do you think? What are the muscle groups you’d use them for? Thanks for answer.
Borge
They can be used for all muscle groups, but I’d prefer you have some strategic approach, here are some suggestions:
– For the first 2-4 weeks of an 8-12 week training phase
– Every 4-6 weeks of an 8-12 week training phase, for 1 full week
– On selected exercises or workout days in the weekly cycle
What I would recommend would require knowing more about you, but like I said to Pat, a program consult is beyond the scope of a comment section for a “short and sweet guide” to training 😉
Robert
Probably there is nothing wrong to use myo reps all year long.
The principle of autoregulation is perfect with all different rep range, or more simple:
Stick with same rep range and add weight only when you can hit you myo reps target.
Simple
Probably you progress slow.. but no one can tell that.
But 100% if you are consistent with autoregulation and adding “stress” only we you can tolerate it.. you can hit you genetic potential.
Sometimes we search the most complicated things, when the simple truth is under our nose.
Thanks borge for your imputs.
Simplicy is the highest form of complexity
Michael
Hey borge, good advices.
I’ve read a comment in this article by John:
Really is possible gain muscle and reach genetic potential use slow speed of movement?
And if the answer is yes, how we can apply it to autoregulation in the SSD program?
Now I’m in my 3rd cycle of ssd, but there is nothing to do, I need slow movement for not feel pain in my joints.
Especially with clusters in week 7 and 8.
How we can use slow cadence with cluster?
I’ve ever think that for muscle growth, especially some techniques (like clusters) are absolutely necessary HEAVY loads.
Thanks man, best regards from France
Borge
If you reduce movement speed, every rep takes longer to complete – so nothing really changes, a slow rep equals 2-3 normal reps so you simply drop the rep count down to accommodate the slower speed of it.
Mike
Hey, Borge!
Thanks for all the content. Really appreciate your perspective on longevity and quality of life. Question: will just a power rack, adjustable bench, and some dumbbells cover the SSD program? If there are some machine exercises, does the program have a list of substitutes?
Thanks in advance for any guidance 🙂
Borge
Yes, the SSD program works just fine with free weights, no need for machines.
Alex
Hello, Børge. Thank you for you articles and all the great guidance you provide.
Do you still take online clients? I need some help from a trainer which knows that not all clients are young and good athletes. You’re one of the few people that I feel understands what toll the stress takes and how to adjust to that.
Regardless of your answer, thanks again, Børge, for all your articles.
Borge
Hi Alex, you can send me an e-mail at coach@borgefagerli.com or just the contact form here:http://311997-www.web.tornado-node.net/
elio Ricciardi
Hello what do you think of this new leangains method?
Monday
* Overhead Press – 3 x 8
* Row – 3 x 8
* Accessory: Calves, biceps or triceps – 2 x 10
Wednesday
* Incline Guillotine press – 3 x 8
* Upright Row 3×10
* Accessory: Calves, biceps or triceps – 2 x 10
Friday
* Deadlift – 2 x 6
* Squat – 5 x 10
* Accessory: Calves, biceps or triceps – 2 x 10
Saturday
* Chin-Up – AMSAP x 5
* Incline Guillotine press – AMSAP x 5
* Upright Row AMSAP x 5
Use 9RM for Saturday AMSAP sets.
Borge
I haven’t seen Martin offer a new program recently, where did you see this?
Looks like a program focused on shoulder development, since leg training is downprioritized.
Not a big fan of Guillotine presses, although the incline is slightly safer. Upright rows is also high risk, and I just don’t think it’s worth it. Face Pulls are better IMO.
elio Ricciardi
consultation I had with him. Does the volume look ok? I wanted to verify it with you.
Thanks for your input.
Borge
Well, regardless of what my article says and how this program aligns with that – the more important question is: does the volume work for you – i.e. are you getting stronger and building muscle? That’s your answer.
Bart
If I missed this, I apologize, but the assumption about effective reps, i.e., that there are potentially 5 up to failure, is based on what? Could you cite your source(s)?
From a purely theoretical perspective, wouldn’t it seem more likely that each rep has an effective contribution. Perhaps with a 8RM weight, where the 8th rep is a contribution of 1, the 7th rep is 0.9, 6th is 0.78, etc. down to the 1st being, maybe 0.04 or whatever.
It just seems odd, at least to me, that if I do 10×4@10RM weight the “effective reps” are 0 but if I do a single set of 10 with that weight, the “effective reps” are 5. It implies that one set of 10 is infinitely better than 10 sets of 4 with that weight.
I should mention that I really like the idea of “effective reps,” but what I’m struggling to understand is whether 2 sets with 5 effective reps will really have the same effect (strength or hypertrophy) as 5 sets with 2 effective reps given that there seems to be plenty of people who think of volume in terms of “effective” or “hard” sets. With their accounting, 5 “hard” sets, i.e., those in the effective range, will consistently yield better results than 2 “hard” sets (in the effective range).
Thoughts?
Borge
It’s primarily based on Henneman’s Size Principle where you need to work to a certain proximity to failure with moderate and lighter loads for the mechanical tension to be exposed to all muscle fibers (the last 3-5 reps of a 15RM set in this study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21986694).
It’s a graded response which even varies between muscle groups, and not an on/off switch. Thus the premise of “effective” reps is just an estimate. There is likely a continuum to how much hypertrophy a particular repetition stimulates. Obviously, since training to near failure results in more hypertrophy than training far away from failure, reps that are closer to failure are more hypertrophic than reps that are far away from failure. However, this doesn’t mean the early reps don’t stimulate hypertrophy at all.
For example, Goto et al. (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15947720) had a group of subjects do sets of 10 RM, but stopping at rep 5 and resting 30 seconds. So, essentially a 5 RIR – at least for the first set.
A second group did sets of 10 RM to failure. The group that did sets of 10 RM experienced three times the hypertrophy of the group that stopped well short of failure. The submaximal group still grew muscle, most likely because the fatigue induced by the short rest periods made the latter 5 rep sets be closer to failure.
Then you have the Martorelli study (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28713535) where one group did 3 sets to failure @70% of 1RM, roughly a 12RM for most people, a second group did 3 sets of 7 reps at the same load, and the third group did 4 sets of 7 reps.
Hypertrophy was greatest in the group that trained to failure (17.5%). The volume equated group that trained well short of failure experienced roughly half of the hypertrophy of the group that trained to failure (8.5%), and the group that did only 3 sets well short of failure experienced very little hypertrophy (2.1%).
This is basically a main confounder of the great volume debate raging on the interwebz currently – the subjects in these studies showing high volumes to be better than moderate volumes are highly unlikely to train to failure, and thus just compensating for lack of effort. If you’ve ever worked 1-on-1 with people in a gym setting you already know that most people end a set with more than 1 rep in reserve unless you really push them hard.
Then again, that final rep to failure may also induce a lot of fatigue and require more time to recover than a set stopping 1-2 reps shy of failure, so that is a general rule of thumb I tend to advocate – unless you are only doing single sets with a low- to moderate frequency, then I think training to failure is a necessity to get any gains.
Chris Beardsley wrote an even more extensive article, if you want to dig even deeper into this topic:
https://medium.com/@SandCResearch/what-is-training-volume-286b8da6f427
Bart
Quite a thorough reply. Thanks so much.
The Martorelli et al. piece you mentioned, in particular, is interesting. Strength increases were comparable across the groups and the change in peak torque was highest in the volume-equated, non-failure group. However, as you noted, hypertrophy was greatest in the to-failure group.
These results would seem to suggest that “effective” reps may be a more appropriate way to think about work as a it contributes to hypertrophy rather than strength development, right?
Then again, only so much can/should be extrapolated from a single study.
Thanks also for pointing me to Chris Beardsley’s articles.
Borge
Yes, strength can be achieved through skill, aka practice, and submaximal training may work very well for this.
The Norwegian powerlifters dominate internationally (and also have the most rigorous drug testing regime, so you can take that variable out of the equation) – and their average training intensity is right around 75%, only reaching 90%+ in the final few weeks of peaking before a competition, with most sets done in the range of 1-4 reps. This way of training also allows for a high frequency, as they learned from the infamous Frequency Project which you have probably heard about – and knowing how some of the top lifters train the common practice is bench 4-5x/week, squats 3-5x/week, deadlifts 2x/week – just to give you an idea. If they were to train to failure and/or use higher %ages of 1RM more often, it would induce too much CNS fatigue and fail completely.
Bart
I apologize if you’ve addressed this in another article (if so and can point me to it, I would appreciate it), but I’ve been reading through Beardsley’s pieces and haven’t come across a recommendation for an ideal range of total effective/stimulating reps per workout or week either for maximizing strength or hypertrophy, appreciating that the optimal number will vary across individuals and also across muscle groups (and will likely vary over time for an individual based on other factors, e.g., amount of sleep, degree of stress, diet, etc.).
I’m curious if there’s any consensus on a number that could be a jumping off point for testing whether greater or fewer effective reps per workout and per week should be prescribed, specifically for natural lifters.
I seem to recall Thibaudeau recommends essentially 1-2 sets to failure (presumably, 5-10 effective reps per workout) for chest, back, hamstrings, and quads. He also recommends 3 workouts per body part per week, so about 15-30 effective reps per week. But I haven’t seen him cite any sources.
Almost all of my experience is with Sheiko/Norwegian-esque approaches, and I find it difficult to convince people who routinely perform up to or in excess of 20 sets per body part per workout with essentially zero “effective” reps to switch to a single set of 5 to failure. But Thibaudeau seems fairly adamant that most natural lifters are doing more work than is optimal. That said, he may also be referring primarily to folks who do 5-6 sets with 6RM so the sets are something like 6,5,3,2,1. A back-of-the-envelope tally puts the effective reps of such a workout at a bit less than 16 (appreciating that the stimulating effect of a rep in a latter set once fatigue has been accumulated will not be as high as without it per Beardsley). That’s considerably more work than Thibaudeau recommends, but do studies support the notion that a natural lifter would be better off with, say 5-8 effective reps per body part per workout rather than 15-20 or vice versa?
What are your thoughts? And thanks in advance. I really appreciate your feedback.
Borge
I have addressed it in the very same article you are commenting on. 😉
“For most lifters, each movement or muscle group can be worked around 2-3x/week at 3 hard, or 4 moderately hard (1RIR), or 5-6 submaximal sets each workout, in the rep range you prefer – but for most people it will be in the vicinity of 6-12 reps.”
3 hard sets being 15 effective reps, 4 moderately hard being approx 16 effective reps and so on.
Bart
What a dope. Sorry about that. I went down the rabbit hole looking for an answer when it was sitting in front of my nose the entire time. Thanks again!
Borge
No worries, you’re not the only one missing the forest for the trees in this whole volume debate 🙂
Mathias
Thanks for all the info. My question is this.
In terms of volume and set/rep i’m gonna stick to your ebook recommendations But what i don’t understand is
if i’m gonna do let’s say 3 sets of benchpress will o do 3 myo reps sets? or do i do 2 straight set and then a myo set?
Are all the sets you recommend in your ebook supposed to be myosets? so for an intermediate you say 6-9 set per week. So you mean 6-9 myosets for chest, back so forth per week ? am i correct in my interpretation?
Borge
Are you talking about the Myo-reps e-book? I gave my recommendations on page 50. I realise the recommendations there are higher than in this article, a consequence of further experience and reflections on the current research.
1 Myo-rep set is approx. equal to 2-4 normal sets, if you look at the number of effective reps.
If you only get something like 12+3+2 (due to low work capacity) – that would equal approx 9-10 effective reps and the equivalent of 2 hard sets.
If you get something like 12+4+4+3 (and provided that you are within 0-1RIR on all sets) – that would equal approx 15 effective reps and the same as 3 hard sets (meaning, to failure).
Mathias
Not trying to complicate things but trying to create my own routine and thought of this:
would this structure for a routine be stupid or decent?
Main lifts: 3-5x 3-5 (when i can do 3-5 sets of x5 reps i increase the weight on the. bench, squat,dead,ohp)
accessory : 1-2 myo-sets per muscle group 2-4 times a week in a rotating upper lower split 5 days
Thanks for valid information.
Borge
Sure, it could work. Just keep in mind that you are only getting 3 effective reps per set when you do sets of 3, so you would need to do more sets to compensate if hypertrophy is your primary goal. For strength it would be fine, though.
I also prefer to separate lower and higher rep training into different workouts. There’s no clear evidence of it, but the research looking at the mechanisms of hypertrophy would suggest that mixing stimuli may cause some interference effects.
Michael
Hi Borge, what do you think of Jason Blaha’s Ice Cream Fitness 2.0 program for beginners/novices?
Also, do you have the link to your Myo reps book? Thanks.
Borge
I have no idea what that program is about, so I can’t comment.
The link is in the Myo-reps article, but here is the direct link: https://gumroad.com/l/fBIsl
Teemu
How do you count volume for legs? Quads and hams separated or combined? Do you recommend doing 3-4 sets per workout for legs overall, or something like 4 sets for quads and 3 for hams?
Borge
“Legs” isn’t a muscle group. A muscle group is categorized according to function, so I would definitely separate quads and hams (and also glutes and calves). And the contribution of different muscle groups in an exercise varies a lot, but squats have been shown to be a poor hamstring exercise.
Teemu
Thanks! That makes the most sense to me also. So a good lower body day should probably consist of 3-4 sets for quads, same for hams and maybe some for calves and glutes and abs too. Though in reality I never really train calves or glutes anyway to be honest 😀
Borge
Depends entirely on the exercise. Squats and split squats/lunges hit the glutes, so you don’t need a lot of extra glute work. If you’re a hip dominant squatter (like the Westside guys) then you will also be hitting some hamstrings, so no need to add a ton of it. If you have A and B workouts, the A workout could be squats and leg curls, the B workout could be a hip hinge pattern (RDL is my favorite) with leg extensions or split squats. I don’t really train calves all that much either, I am satisfied with their size and even with a ton of volume and loading they barely grew 0.5cm in circumference so I figured it wasn’t really worth it 🙂
Ian
Great article. I was sucked into the entire idea of just adding more and more volume to my workout if a lift was stalling or just “eating more”. My lifts would continue on the same plateau or regress when implementing both. I then decreased volume and frequency and saw an immediate increase in strength
Francisco Navarro
Hey Borge. Great article! thanks. Do you believe you can get to your genetic potential with only 2x per week training? like a full body template with A B workouts?
Borge
In theory, I definitely think so, yes. You can argue that you would get there faster with more training (frequency and volume), but on the other hand I see too many lifters overdo it during the early years – get various aches/pains or overreach/burnout and thus have to backtrack and restart progress…so I tend to err on the conservative side. I have clients making progress consistently over many months with quite conservative volumes – where their previous programming had only produced endless cycles of progress/stagnation/regression.
Francisco Navarro
Thanks man! Yeah and I guess in some contexts it would be be better to only train 2x/week when life stress is higher or recovery is impeded for whatever reason. I like going to the gym right now because of my current schedule so I do 6 times per week but is a push pull legs split that takes no longer than 45min to complete and the gym is like 2 blocks from home do I don’t mind going but I wonder if there would be much of a difference if I did 2 full body workouts like monday and thursday. Sometimes I wonder if I would get the same or even faster progress since recovery wouldn’t be an issue. I think I may try it out just for shits and giggles to see what happens I’ve been training consistently for about 4 years now. plus like a year back when I was in college and progress is very slow. I’m not genetically gifted by any means so I maybe I’m not getting a very good ROI and maybe I should find other things to do with my time.
Borge
There are pros and cons to all choices. Shorter, more frequent workouts allows you to do more “quality” volume, i.e. you are less fatigued from beginning to end with your current split. There could also be some advantages wrt blood flow which is notoriously poor in connective tissue and bone vs. muscle, so having more frequent spikes can be beneficial. Then again, a workout also induces a certain inflammatory response, and some people don’t have the recovery capacities to handle this inflammation within a certain time span – and start experiencing various aches and pains, water retention and swelling when doing daily training. So for them, a lower frequency of training is better.
The only way to know is to try it for yourself 🙂
Francisco Navarro
Thank you for your wisdom I have finally decided to try out the 2x per week full body mondays and thurstdays. I’ll go back to my old gym which is a 10 minute drive but has the greatest equipment available. I’m a coach and a nutritionist myself and I’m more interested in efficiency and sustainability. I took the bayesian bodybuilding certification last year and I also bought the ssd program which is a goldmine. So I’m just going to follow my instict and go for it worst case scenario I’ll maintain what I got if it doesn’t work for me I’ll probably go for an upper/lower 4x per week. I’ll report in a few months to let you know how it goes. Looking forward for you opening a patreon or some type of blog Borge your wisdom is always inspiring.
Borge
Great, looking forward to hearing how it goes 🙂
I’ll consider something like that, but atm I’m a Product Manager for the health supplement brand MyRevolution that I founded in 2006, so there’s not a lot of time outside that and having a few coaching clients.
George
Hi Borge! I’m looking into the idea of effective reps both yourself and Lyle seem to have really good insights and practical applications however, besides the idea of 5 hard reps towards the end of a set, is there a range of effective repetitions per muscle per week you’ve found to work best for people? Sorry if you’ve already addressed this!
Borge
Yeah, around 15-25 effective reps per workout seems to be the sweet spot, and frequency will depend on how quickly you recover – 2-3x/week per muscle group for most people (slow-twitch generally recover faster, fast-twitch slower).
George
Thank you for such a quick reply. With 15-25 effective reps per session in mind and using Incline 2x10rm 1RIR as an example, that would equate to 18 effective reps providing 2×9 repetitions are performed right? And providing that progressive tension overload is applied when possible and consistency/recovery isn’t an issue, someone would make incredible muscle gains? I’m trying to console this with all the recent jargon on volume. Also a quick question about counting volume. Do you think counting volume for smaller/assisting muscles on a 0:5-1 basis is a good idea? For example 4 sets of bench would equate to 2 in-direct sets for front/medial delt. Cheers, Borge!
George
Hi Borge, just a follow up to my previous comment. I believe I got my math in-correct! I believe 2x10rm 1RIR would equate to 8 effective reps, seeing as 10rm = 5 effective reps however using 1 RIR it would equate to 4 repetitions, therefore 2 sets = 8 effective reps! Sorry my noobness. Just delving into this stuff.
Borge
2 sets of 10 @1RIR would indeed be 8 effective reps. Just to note that the 5-10 effective rep range is probably a good starting point and a great minimalist way of approaching training – in line with my article here.
Counting volume for smaller muscle groups can be a complex topic, but anywhere from 0.5-0.75 is a good range. I would count 1 for front delts and 0 for medial delts on bench press (I think the former mainly works as a stabilizer for that particular exercise).
George
Thanks again for the reply, Borge, appreciate that you take the time to do so! One last go before I call it a day.
Are you saying 5-10 effective reps per muscle per session is a good way to go as far as minimalist training is concerned with the 15-25 effective rep range being better suited for more moderate volumes? Cheers again!
Borge
I would say 15-25 reps is the maximal range.
Steve
Another solid article Borge! Thanks for sharing your wisdom with us!
Anton Antonov
Hello, Mr. Fagerli. For the past year, maybe 80 % of my hypertrophy work is myo reps. Honestly the results which I got from doing that type of work vs. more traditional, straight sets work are pretty much the same , the only difference is of course my training time dropped down. So my question is do you think I miss something of not training in that ”magic” hypertrophy range (6-12 reps). Recent studies show that there is no difference between 8-12 and 25-35 rep range for muscle growth. Also I dropped the Big 3 for hypetrophy work because I think they are not so good for myo reps or any high rep work so I do them for strength in the 1-3 range. Have you ever seen someone training only with myo reps for hypertrophy? Also I want to thank you for all free information you spread through podcasts, articles and of course your book. Sorry for the long post but I just have no one around me training like this and there are no studies or experiments with myo reps so I just have this option. Thanks!
Borge
You have pretty much answered your own question – you are seeing the same results with Myo-reps and drastically less training time, so of course, you can keep doing it – and yes, there are many who are training exclusively with Myo-reps for long periods of time. I think everyone with high ambitions has the fear of missing out, whether it be relationships, money, or training/diet. There is nothing to suggest that there is a “magic” hypertrophy range at all – or rather, if there is such a range it is more likely between 3-30 reps, not 6-12.
Anton Antonov
Thanks for the quick answer! Wish you all the best!
ERIC
Hey Borge! Hope you are doing great in business and in life
What do you think of a myo- rep/dropset combination for the 5-10 rep range? where the activation set is a heavy set and you do the myo rep series after droping the load 10% so something like 100kg*8+90kg*5,5,4 or something like that or do you think at that point doing something like straight sets or cluster sets would be a better choice?
Borge
I don’t see how it would make a huge difference from just doing a regular drop-set, but feel free to try it out 🙂
Jones
Hi Borge. Loving the content on this blog!
Question, for someone only able to workout saturday and sunday, do you think it would still be possible to reach their genetic potential? I guess something like upper/lower or push/pull would be ideal in that situation, and really go hard, or how would you set it up?
Thanks!
Junas
Hi Borge. Loving the content on this blog!
Question, for someone only able to workout saturday and sunday, do you think it would still be possible to reach their genetic potential? I guess something like upper/lower or push/pull would be ideal in that situation, and really go hard, or how would you set it up?
Thanks!
Borge
That is a difficult question to answer, but my fundamental belief is that there will be a certain genetic/hormonal limit to how big you can get and even though it takes more time, you should eventually get there almost regardless of approach. Having said that, there are guys/girls who get stuck at a certain bodyweight and body composition, and if we assume that diet and recovery (sleep, stress etc) is already taken care of, it may very well be that frequency and volume could and should be increased (gradually) to improve results. But most people can get there on minimalist approaches.
Also check out Marty Gallagher, he is training regular people into nationally ranked powerlifters this way:
https://www.ironcompany.com/blog/once-a-week-strength-training-part-1/
Andrew
Is the myo reps book or the band/bodyweight training book still available? My gym is closed because of coronavirus, and I’m looking for an effective way to train at home.
Borge
Yes, the Myo-reps e-book is linked in the article on Myo-reps, and the bodyweight guide was posted in the Sustainable Self Development forum.
STEPHEN
Hi Borge. Hope you are doing well. Are you familiar with Gerd Gigerenzer’s work on heuristics and intuition? I came across him and it reminded me of what you’ve mentioned a couple of times about trusting your instincts. I have found that as I gain more experience I’m better off not following a very strict training program but a set of principles as I get caught up in the numbers and end up with various aches and pains. Gerd Gigerenzer made me re-think about the approach many evidence based practitioners take with their clients. An over-reliance on statistical data can be counterproductive in some cases. If you are not familiar with his work I highly recommend you check him out he is very scientifically minded but he’s got some unconventional thoughts and he seems legit here is a video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixyFm_OoKlw . If you are familiar with his work I’d like to know what you make of what Gerd Gigerenzer thinks. Since there are studies not nececessarily on weight training that show that a simple intuitive approach model can outperform an optimization model when you don’t have a full picture and a lot of uncertanty. There seem to be some biological mechanisms engrained throughout evolution that can be quite powerfull. I’d love to hear your thoughts on this matter. Sorry for the rambling but you know how this is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ixyFm_OoKlw
Borge
Hi Stephen, I haven’t heard of him but I’ll check out the videos 🙂
Borge
Oh, and I am a supporter of the intuitive approach, there are good studies showing how people are able to both choose the most productive rep ranges, exercises, frequency, progression model and rest period between sets – but I think many people can get too stuck in their own heads to really understand what intuition tells you. I know I struggled with this for a long time 🙂
Frank
Hi Borge, I hope you’re doing great. I have two questions for you:
1) you mentioned once how some of your clients responded better to the first version of Myo-Reps: mini sets of half the chosen RM (e.g. 5 reps with 10RM) without the activation set. Can you briefly explain how they work? Load selection, volume of mini sets, how and when to progress them, etc.
2) In light of the recent studies on sarcoplasmic hypertrophy and volume ( https://www.strongerbyscience.com/sarcoplasmic-hypertrophy-relevant/), do you think there is still value in high rep training for someone who wants to maximize myofibrillar hypertrophy and/or just instinctively prefer moderate to low rep work?
Thank you very much!
Borge
1. I don’t think I ever said that clients responded better. It was, after all, the first version. I consider the current version to be the best. The first version was essentially just cluster training, using 10RM loads or heavier.
2. Yes, I think hypertrophy cannot be maximized by training only with higher loads and lower reps, so higher rep training has its place for either 4-8 week phases, for 1 week intermittent use during a training cycle (e.g. every 4-8 weeks), or for use on certain exercises within a training cycle – all described in the e-book.
Frank
Thank you very much Borge.
I apologize for having misinterpreted your words, it is far from my intentions to spread false information about your work. I put a FB comment out of context, and I’m very sorry for that.
By the way, I have both the two e-books and the SSD system, and I was indeed wondering if your thoughts evolved since then: hence the second question.
Speaking of SSD system and lockdown, do you have a favourite way to add reps to bodyweight exercise for someone who sucks badly at high rep work in general? I can do harder variations but I can’t increase reps on the easier ones.
Thank you again.
Borge
No need to apologize 🙂
A good way to add reps is to do several submaximal sets, i.e. if your current best is 1 set of 20, try doing 2-5 sets of 15 – i.e. you can either auto-regulate and stop whenever you can’t do sets of 15 anymore, or just do 5 sets and stay there until you get all sets of 15. It depends on your current volume, so if you’re only doing 2 sets I would try 3-4 submaximal sets – going straight to 5 sets will be quite a jump in volume. Then, when you’re able to do 5 sets of 15, aim for 5 sets of 16 etc. You can also have one day be added load and lower reps – especially if you’re intermediate-advanced.
This progression should take you quite a while, and the gyms will hopefully have opened up by then 🙂
Randy Rindfleisch
Wouldn’t one be able to do entire sets of “effective reps” via isokinetic training?
Borge
Theoretically, yes – but isokinetic equipment would allow you to work with a gradually lower resistance until it is practically zero (or whatever the lower threshold is), and I think the metabolic stress would increase recovery needs to a point where you’re essentially just doing a ton of “junk” volume. The research comparing isokinetic to conventional resistance exercise favors the latter, there is even some research showing that isokinetic training does not cause hypertrophy in some muscle groups.
STEPHEN
Hello Borge I hope you and your family are doing well during this tough times. Do you find fat grips useful? Since they would change the limiting factor from the prime mover to a secondary mover but I find they help when things start to ache since they limit the weight you can use on a few exercises. But one could argue that you would get 0 effective reps by using fat grips. I know you have said that it is not like the last 5 are 100 percent effective and the first 0 percent effective so I just wonder what you think. I just use them occasionally for curls and I don’t consider them a staple in my training but every now and them I use them. God bless you sir. Stay safe.
STEPHEN
Also there is this cool group on FB called abbreviated training and I think you might be able to get a good following/customers lots of followers of mentzer and many other guys but they are not as dogmatic with 1 set to failure every 15 days or anything like that. most people do around 8-12 weekly sets in that group. A lot of members have home gyms and seem to be interested in efficiency and training sustainability. I am not an administrator or anything like that I just thought it would be cool if you joined. I’ll share this article here. PS here is the link of the group in case you are interested in joining. https://www.facebook.com/groups/501864470260846
Borge
Thanks for the tip, I’ll have a look 🙂
Borge
I think grip strengthening exercises are great, but I don’t think you should allow the grip to become a limiting factor – at least not intentionally. I.e. in exercises such as deadlift or RDLs, for most people the grip quickly becomes limiting since strength will increase faster in the big muscles involved in lifting the weight vs. the small forearm muscles involved in holding the weight. Grip strength also seems to be affected by more variables such as gender, age and genetics than strength in other muscle groups. Hence, I recommend using lifting straps in lifts or loading ranges where grip becomes limiting, whereas using fat grips can be a good tool for grip strengthening either indirectly or with dedicated exercises for that purpose.
Eric Ramos
Borge,
Hope all is well. I have a question, for clarification purposes. You’ve mentioned that everything is already activated from the get go when it comes to heavier loads (8RM-10RM) and you’ve suggested clusters vs myo with those ranges (I hope I’m not butchering that)
If the load is sufficiently heavy, wouldn’t every one of those reps then be “effective” and stimulating?
So with 3*5 and a 8RM load, wouldn’t each of those reps be effective and stimulating enough for size?
Follow up, if it is, then 3*5 fits the bill for your recommendation of 2-3 sets of done 2-3* a week?
Borge
Yes.
Gio
Hi Borge, compliments for your professionality and competence.
As said, if 5-10 effective reps for workout are enough to stimulate good strength increase, a 2X10@11RM even for 5-6 days/week could be soustainable?
Borge
That would probably not be sustainable for most lifters, unless everything is in order recovery-wise (stress, sleep, nutrition, circadian rhythms, and it should preferably be summertime).
Gio
This maybe because of too many repetitions and stressfull series…it’s important to understand also for other readers indeed….and if it were 2X3-4@5-6RM, could be sustainable for 5-6 days/week?
Borge
Same answer, I’m afraid. I have done it and felt good on it, but I wouldn’t necessarily call it sustainable. You can get some nice short-term strength increases, but the connective tissue tends to suffer long term. I would perhaps try it for 3-4 weeks then scale back to a lower frequency and see if you can maintain gains.
There are good reasons for the recommendations in the article, you know 🙂
Gio
So, for example, if one day with these sets one works bench press and bent rows…and the next day works overhead press and pull ups, they don’t conflict and it’s suitable every day alternating the two groups of exercises?
Borge
There will be overlap with front and rear delts + biceps and triceps in this case, so I think a push/pull strategy would be better.
Simon
But would you always train with a 0-1RIR unless you’re deloading? For an advanced individual, even an intermediate it seems like it would be to fatiguing to be sustainable, what are your tougthts on that?
maybe cycling your RIR troughout a block? for example: week 1: 3 RIR, week 2: 2 RIR, week 3: 1RIR and then either restart the cycle or doing a deload.
I know that you are a fan of autorregulation in your training but it seems a little bit tricky to do if you train with a more strict schedule.
Simon
But would you always train with a 0-1RIR unless you’re deloading? For an advanced individual, even an intermediate it seems like it would be to fatiguing to be sustainable, what are your tougthts on that?
maybe cycling your RIR troughout a block? for example: week 1: 3 RIR, week 2: 2 RIR, week 3: 1RIR and then either restart the cycle or doing a deload.
I know that you are a fan of autorregulation in your training but it seems a little bit tricky to do if you train with a more strict schedule.
Borge
You can feel free to vary RIR as you wish, it doesn’t need to be 0-1RIR or have a preset structure.
Dave vincenti
Hey Borge, an interesting question in my opinion
Would you leave out any form of overhead pressing since it mainly hits the front delt? Better to work on lateral raises and face pulls instead?
In my plan I only have dumbbell bench press as the only pushing exercise since my pecs grow easily. I would probably need to add some triceps isolations I guess?
Thx and Merry Xmas!
Andy 000
Does 3 hard sets 0 RIR maximize muscle protein synthesis (MPS) within that training session? James Krieger recommends around 6-8 hard sets for maximising MPS within a given training session, not sure about the RIR of his recommendation. Assuming that hard sets to him means 0 RIR, is it possible that when you are very close to you genetic potential, meaning that you could gain maybe 1-2 kgs tops if you train like a professional, that it might be possible, time efficient and superior to gain those last kgs by doing 6-8 sets but with lower frequency like only per week in order to maximize MPS? To rephrase the question, does maximising MPS (6-8 sets 0 RIR) in one session per week superior to submaximal MPS (2-3 sets 0 RIR) from 2-3 sessions per week for extremely advanced lifters looking to gain the last bit of muscle they can naturally gain?
Borge
I think you get pretty damn close with 2-3 hard sets, yes – but some may need or benefit from more sets, the downside being that higher volumes also increase muscle protein breakdown and takes longer to recover from, so there will always be a trade-off.
What frequency research we have seems to indicate that the sweet spot for most is around 2x/week or maybe once every 5 days, and comparative studies (volume-matched) indicate that 3x/week at a given volume (around 10 sets/week) is better than 1x/week – so 1x/week is probably borderline for some and too infrequent for some, depending on the volume.
What muddles the picture is the use of PEDs in bodybuilding, even in those claiming to be natural and using prohormones (which are steroids that just haven’t yet been classified). Not only does it dramatically improve MPS at any given volume, but it also prolongs the growth response, extending it into a 7-10 day period vs. just 1-3 days for naturals. So for naturals it makes sense to maintain a more frequent anabolic stimulus, for drug users it’s just not needed.
I would say that “you do you” is probably as good a recommendation as any when it comes to training, as there is a pretty significant correlation between what you personally enjoy doing and what is physiologically the right one for you – i.e. if you like training many sets and exercises for a muscle group, wait until you are recovered before training again – if you enjoy shorter and more frequent workouts, then do that.
Andy 000
What about doing myo reps on bodyweight exercises like pushups with added resistance from bands and maybe weight vest? Or maybe bulgarians split squats or even squats with dumbbels, weight vest and bands combined? Could myo reps on those exercises with an activation set of maybe 10-35 reps close to failure build as much muscle as traditional gym exercises? If so does the same volume recommendations apply or are more sets needed?
Borge
Yes, that would work perfectly fine. Research shows that sets to failure are equivalent in the 8-30 rep range when it comes to hypertrophy, so no more sets are needed – in fact, metabolic/high-rep work requires more recovery than lower rep work, so doing more sets would be potentially counterproductive.
Francisco Navarro
Hey Mr Fagerli thank you for your training wisdom. I just got a new as a trainer in a gym and spend 8 hours straight standing/waliking picking up gym equipment and showing how to perform exercises. I had been training Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Fridays Upper/Lower fashion. I was wondering If I would be better off by going Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays But still In an upper lower fashion. In which you train each body part 3 times every 2 weeks or if I would be better off going to full body 3 times per week. I don’t generally do well with more than 2 times per week frequency per muscle group as aches and pains start to develop. I took the Bayesian bodybuilding PT course and bought the SSD system so I do have some knowledge but I need someone to talk some sense to me. I would really appreciate the advice. I hope you and your family are doing well during this crazy times. God bless you sir. Stay safe.
Francisco Navarro
A new Job as a trainer*
Francisco Navarro
Full body 2x per week I would also consider Mondays and Thursdays.
Borge
Sure, try it out and see how it works.
Simón Hernández
Hey Borge, I have a question on a particular way of training. How much volume would you theoretically need to do when doing a set consisting on using supramaximal eccentrics. kinda like the ARX fit machines that you can see here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeGK7xrU-hg it makes each rep of the set a maximal rep, in the concentric and the eccentric contraction. You could argue that each rep done with a device like that would be an “effective rep” so the volume needed to “optimize” the training stimulus would be lower.
It is an interesting device but I would like to know your toughts on it as it would be interesting to hear someone that always tries to provide an objective point of view like yourself.
The thing is that the guys behind that company are followers of the HIT crowd and that leaves no room for discussion.
Borge
Yes, every rep would be a perfect rep, so 15-25 total reps would be a range to aim for normally – but this would also be a higher load and higher strain on all the contractile and connective tissues, so I would perhaps start with the lower end and go from there.
Simón Hernández
Thanks Borge! cheers
Simón Hernández
Hey Borge, I wanted to report back on this question.
My original question came off because I use specific calisthenics/gymnastics strength movements for my upper body consisting of planche pushups, one arm chin ups, Front lever rows and pike/handstand pushups. Just in case you are not familiar, these movements get harder as you change the leverage and/or assistance with a non-working limb. For example on a planche pushup if you extend your legs further the bigger the torques your limbs have to deal with and thus, your muscles have to work harder, increasing intensity. The same with front lever rows. For one arm chin ups, you can do assisted one arm chins with your opposite arm. Finally with pike pushups you can vary intensity by changing how much feet assistance you use. That being said, you can imagine how each rep of the set of any of these exercises can be made with as much intensity as possible, even using an eccentric overload. It’s Just like the ARX machine I mentioned in my main question. However More than focusing on my exercise selection, I wanted to focus on the programming aspect of it.
That being said, I’ve been testing how to program this “All effective reps” for some time and I wanted to tell you how I’ve been doing it and if you can provide some feedback that could be great!
In some calisthenics circles, this method is being called accommodating resistance (AR). A little bit confusing considering that accommodating rresistance is already associated with the use of bands and chains in weight training but, anyway.
I’ve been doing AR doing about 2-3 sets on average per exercise. The intention is to get 15-25 TOTAL reps (just like you suggested) per exercise/muscle group per session considering that the objective is hypertrophy.
I use a frequency of 2x per week on a full body split.
Also I use a RPE measurement to have some autoregulation integrated into these AR reps. How I apply it is that I use RPE for each rep I do on the set and the measurement is not based on the RIR RPE scale but more like on the OMNI RPE scale which uses a more subjective measurement that focuses on muscle exertion throughout (as you can’t really use repetitions in reserve with AR)
Getting into how I split this reps is that you can decide to do the reps as continuous reps, as clusters/rest-pause or a combination of both. For example, 8 AR reps could be done as 8 straight reps, as 1/1/1/1/1/1/1/1 (8 rest-pause) or 2/2/2/2 (8 reps done in 4 rest-pause mini sets of 2 reps each) and tracking RPE so that the first weeks are of a lower effort on average when compared to a higher effort at the end of the mesocycle. In this scenario 2-3 sets would suffice (16-24 effective reps total for the worked muscles) I certainly wouldn’t do a big set of 24 continous reps. I wouldn’t go higher than 12 reps per set and that would be pushing it but I’m not sure
The idea is to be aware of progress by tracking how much assistance are you percieving you’re using and tracking with video to corroborate it.
So far, I feel like I did build some muscle using this approach and with a fraction of the time it usually takes me to train. I’ve been tracking my macros, weight and calories accordingly to be systematic about it.
So,
– what are your thoughts?
– are the prescription guidelines reasonable?
– for a bigger maximal stregth focus what would you consider?
Beforehand, let me thank you if you even take the time to read this because I’m sure that you must be busy with other stuff, however any input would be great!
I’m really interested to know if this system kinda makes sense because I’d like to do a research study with this method of training with my university (I’m a physical therapy studente) if it’s a reasonable approach and if it’s worth to even test it.
Cheers.
Borge
I have been close to making a rule about not answering questions in the form of “what are your thoughts” as I already do that (share my thoughts) in the articles I write, and things get buried in comments section where I prefer to share my thoughts so that as many people as possible can get value from them.
But since this is for a higher purpose (the more good research we can get, the better): I don’t see any problems with your approach and the plan seems reasonable. Most of the time, the best approach is to start with a general prescription and see how you do, adjusting volume and frequency according to how the body responds.
Maximal strength focus involves keeping more reps in reserve and doing lower reps to minimize fiber type conversion and metabolic stress. So essentially cluster sets of 1-3 fits that bill. I would also keep volume low to enable a high(er) frequency, 2x/week being the minimum for maximal strength gains.
Simón Hernández
Oh, I get where you’re coming from. I actually have read a lot of the comments here and there are quite a few repeated questions. You could probably have a banner con top inviting others to use the search command (ctrl+f) to see if their question has already been answered. I thought this was a relevant question considering it was rather unusual. The thoughts were more in regard to it being reasonable for the research and I thank you for your input!
That being said thank you so much Borge for your feedback!
Borge
I think not reading/searching previous comments is a built-in human feature, so I didn’t mean to imply that your questions weren’t valid. I guess there are just a few buttons that can get pushed after almost 25 years of publishing articles, and on this site where there’s just a few articles there are almost 1000 comments that I have responded to. Now imagine my Norwegian site where I have 100+ articles… 😀
Eric
Borge,
How do you assess an individuals ‘volume tolerance’? Does it have anything to do with how they recover between sets. For example, if someone does a hard set(0-2RIR) of 8-15 reps, gets adequate rest of 2-3 minutes, but comes back to the 2nd set and only completes about half the reps of the previous set (ex. 10 reps on the 1st set, only 5-7 on the second set), does this imply anything about the volume, frequency that they should train at or their recovery abilities?
Borge
That is indeed a low work capacity, and I would try a lower volume approach as a general rule – but there may also be benefits to increasing work capacity – e.g. doing sets across at 15-20 reps. I spent a few weeks earlier this year doing 5 sets of 20 reps in the bench press, only increasing load when I could get all 5 sets with 20 reps on every set. This also increased my top end strength over time.
Eric
Are you keeping the same weight across sets? If I did 5 sets of 15-20, the first 2-3 sets would need to be like 3-4 reps in reserve to make it though at the same load.
Borge
Yes, that is precisely the point. If you go to failure on each set (and reduce load to stay in the same rep range), you will increase fatigue dramatically and see a larger drop-off in strength from set to set – thus defeating the purpose of this.
Bob
Hi Borge,
Just getting to this article after running down rabbit holes. I am 64 so an older lifter, who would like to gain muscle into older age and remain active. I workout three days a week, plus play sports 3 days a week on alternate days. Any advice on working out given the scenerio I have laid out. Not sure if you addressed older lifters, or not. Thank you!
Borge
Hi Bob, research shows that older lifters can also gain muscle given the right balance between stress and recovery, so if you lift weights 3 days per week and play sports the other 3, there is only 1 rest day left. I would put the primary focus on proper nutrition and sleep, and moderate volume on each workouts to accommodate your recovery capacity. A general recommendation would also be to lighten the loads a little and do higher reps. A slower rep speed may also be prudent as the connective tissue regenerative capacity slows down with age.
Maurice
Hi Borge,
my name is Maurice and I have been following your work for years.
I am an old date bodybuilder from UK, with a lot of wear and injuries in my past.
I was competing in the 90s, on the way of Dorian Yates!
Now bodybuilding remains my passion.
Given my age (63 yo), I would like to try your myo reps protocol, especially because I am attracted to the self-regulation of fatigue.
But I ask you one thing: in order not to experience joint pain, I use a very controlled cadence, like 4-5″ for each phase of the repetition (10″ total per rep).
This would lead me to do the first activation set around 5-6 repetitions, and I was thinking of doing the mini sets consisting of 1 rep.
Now my doubts:
1) due to the fact that my single repetition lasts like 3-4 “classic” repetitions, how could I keep myself away from collapse with 1 repetition in the tank, as you prescribe?
1 rep in the tank, in my case, means 1/3 the rom of a single rep! ha ha ha.
2) in the myo rep ebook, you recommend stopping when we are not able to replicate the performance of the previous minisets, in the last mini set. So if I made 2 minisets of 5, and in this one I get 3, I stop.
Now, if I move slowly, and perform 1 mini rep per set lasting 10″, how can I understand how to self-adjust based on the above principle?
3) maybe in my case a cluster set might works better? Any idea?
Thank you. United in iron!
M.
Borge
Hi Maurice, good to hear from you!
With the slow cadence, you would obviously not be able to stay a full rep from failure at any point, so you just have to feel your way to the fatigue management part. If any single rep in the Myo-rep series begins to grind, you stop there (the next rep would thus have a high probability of failing).
Cluster sets are generally better with higher intensities (80-85% of 1RM), whatever rep count that translates into for you.
Frank
Hi Borge, I would like to ask you a somewhat unusual question, if I may.
As I’m getting older, I’m trying to focus my efforts on developing power, as much as physiologically possible, since it’s one of the first qualities to decay with age.
Is it possible to maintain or even increase hypertrophy in the process without interfering with this goal?
Of course, I don’t care anymore about the maximum attainable level.
I know it’s an abused cliché, but I’m thinking about 100 meters sprinters. They have beautiful physiques while being some of the most explosive athletes amongst all.
Thank you!
Borge
You need to be careful of extrapolating the way an athlete looks to the way you should train to look the same – sprinters often have a specific structure and physiology which makes them top level athletes when they adopt the correct training and nutritional habits. There is no guarantee or even a high probability that you will look like a sprinter just by doing more power training.
That being said, you can do just fine with power training in your program, as long as you adjust the volume of both power and hypertrophy training – and perhaps consider different phases of each quality where the other is put on maintenance, or at least on separate days. How to set that up is, of course, individual 🙂
Frank
Thank you very much for the reply Borge, and for the patience.
I’d like to be clear that with the sprinters example, I was implying that it is possible to have a good amount of muscle mass and be explosive at the same time, not that power training will grant me Shawn Crawford’s body :).
I’m sorry If I sounded pretentious.
We know that *some* hypertrophy adaptations are detrimental to power development (https://medium.com/@SandCResearch/why-are-strength-gains-velocity-specific-after-heavy-strength-training-9b8d4dfd5618), but clearly not all of them: otherwise sprinters would be thin, I suppose.
So basically my point was: is it possible to train in a way that would elicit only the adaptations useful for that goal?
I was thinking about multiple clusters of low reps, high RiR, and/or using the minimum amount of volume that is necessary.
Borge
Hypertrophy requires a sufficient volume of – despite its criticism by some in the field – “effective” reps. Hence my recommendations in the article. Power training requires lower volumes, higher speeds and lower loads. So training for power optimally does not train hypertrophy optimally, and vice versa. Life, she is full of compromises. I just think that if you try to half-ass both, you will most likely only get half-ass results. Hence my recommendation to separate it into phases, or at the very least – days – still stands.
James B.F.
Good morning Börge,
I’m reading another time your myo-reps ebook, and every time I can see something that I’ve not seen the previous time.
I think one of the most interesting and simple approach to minimalist training, with minimal time spent!
Im using them, and I love it.
Especially for the pump component.. damn.. HUGE!
For my past as a HIT trainer, myo reps seems “high volume”, but in reality the fatigue is autoregulated (this is THE smart thing!!).
One thing, if, at the end of the day we will arrive at our genetic potential, until we can recover and until we can gain strenght..
Which are the advantages of myo reps compared to the classic “one set to failure” mentzer style?
Because, if one set to failure x exercise is enough to stimulate growth, and in the long run end in the same place, why add more “effective” reps might be beneficial?
Thanks
James
Borge
Hi James, and thank you for the great feedback 🙂
I’m honestly not sure that a single set will get you to your maximum muscular potential. I can only think of a handful of trainers, throughout the world, in modern times, that got that way doing only a single set.
Now, you can still get plenty muscular, and it is great for building strength – but pretty much all the research and practical experience tells me that if you are to do only a single set you should at least do it 2-3x/week.
We also have sufficient evidence to say that managing fatigue is a much more productive strategy than chasing fatigue, but I guess if you are determined to do a single set, then failure may not only be viable but of a higher necessity just to make sure you‘re not leaving any gains on the table.
So I guess the longwinded answer to your question is that doing a Myo-rep set adds that little extra volume that I feel confident will have a higher probability of triggering gains where a single set to failure – for most people – will not really do the job once you get to a certain training level.
Ben
Hey Borge, do you think that using ONLY myo reps for each exercise, and as “stand alone” technique, might be good for long term gains?
What I mean: use only myo reps forever! 🙂
For me it helps to save time, autoregulate fatigue, and do more work compared to steaight sets.
Have you any clients who use myo reps since long time?
And (especially for joint issues) use always moderate to high reps (like 50-70 seconds under tension)? Thanks
Borge
I’ve gotten asked that question in the comments section on the Myo-reps article too many times to count 😉 yes, hypothetically speaking I see no reason why you can’t use Myo-reps indefinitely.
Karl
Hello and thank you for all the great information you provide
I was wondering what your thoughts about the latest information in regards to optimal volume pr session that James Kriegers big guide outlines after going through all the research on the topic. It seems like also most of the “scientific” hypertrophy experts are following this approach now. So that you should aim for 6-10 sets pr muscle group pr session as the optimal amount. This also means that you have maximum 2 sessions a week to reach that 10-20 sets pr muscle group pr week as the guideline for “optimal volume” for hypertrophy. You can also use 3 sessions for a specialization phase on one muscle group etc.
But i guess since you like to recommend 2-3 sessions a week of 3-4 sets as a general starting point, it seems like based on that research that it would be better to just do 1 session a week with 6-8 sets instead of 2 sessions of 3-4 sets. Your thoughts ? 🙂 if you have change your mind about it or your thoughts about.
Thanx again from a follower from Norway 🙂
Borge
Hi Karl
(I can see your e-mail address btw ;))
My thoughts haven’t changed. Using short term studies in vastly different populations to make broad statements about how to train has its pros and cons, obviously. What provides the most growth in the short term may not be the most productive for long-term growth and longevity in the game – and that’s the perspective I’m coming from.
A guy in his 20s can do 20 sets per week for quite a while and get nice growth from it – as long as everything is in order (nutrition – most tend to undereat, sleep – most tend to undersleep, stress management – fine for most, but not all).
As you get a few months and years of training under your belt and things start to hurt, stagnate and/or regress…you realize you get nice growth from the volume ranges I prescribe to and it’s far more sustainable.
The comment about 1 session of 6-8 sets being better than 2 sessions of 3-4 sets, I’m not convinced at all. The growth response after a session starts to flatten out at around 15-25 “effective reps” (yes, I know this terminology is flawed and criticized) which is around 3-5 sets. The time course of adaptation, recovery and growth is on the order of 3-5 days. So think 3-5 sets every 3-5 days is pretty close to the optimal and most relevant, long-term strategy for everyone.
On an individual level, I have people doing from 2-3 sets 1x/week to 3-10 sets 2-3 days per week, because…everyone is different in how they apply and recover from loading a muscle.
Karl
Hehe that is ok 🙂
Thank you for the reply
That is interesting and cool to hear. Do you base your recommendations on some spesific studies/science you find really good, and or also what you and clients have experienced?
When cutting do you like to keep the volume the same, drop it, or increase it (Mike israetel and crew do it, so i included it) ? i know you have answered and written about this somewhat before as well. But if you like to drop it, by how much?
When cutting i feel frequency can be of more importance for me. Say 1x a week for 4 sets vs 2x a week for 2 sets each workout. Because for me strength tend to drop faster during a cut if i only perform exercises for a muscle group once a week.
If one would like to specialize or try and focus on one or more muscles to grow more while maintaining others. How would you approach it?
What would be the volume/frequency for the muscles that is being “maintained” and how far could you push the muscles you want to prioritize, provided sleep, nutrition etc are in line and you feel good.
Or will it even itself out by having some muscles on “maintanance volume” or lower volume, automaticly give the other muscles you train more resources and you will just see more increase in performance (sets/reps/weight) which again will lead to hypertrophy.
I have heard you talk about this a little bit on a podcast episode (when you doing pullups with weights attached). But when tracking progress in terms of staying in a rep range, say 6-12 as an “optimal”. For some, especially for me, there are some muscle groups that have to stay in a very tight range in terms of increasing performance. Say for bench press, 8 reps is starting to get very high reps and can be hard to reach each time in order to progress VS just adding more weight in the 5-7 rep zone instead. Like if i drop the weight a good amount i dont get that many more reps, that one should do based on % of RM. Have you had many experiences with your self and clients that has that “problem” as well? Is it muscle composition that is the main factor ( fast twitch, slow twitch etc) or is it also a component of poor endurance so that one could do a cycle or two with higher reps to get that up?
I love training and can train every day without problem and i never get sore or struggle with anything in regards to tendons, muscles etc etc. So for me “following my intuition” can be a little missleading because then i wanted to train the muscles i want to grow every day, 7 days a week almost 🙂
But then again, when i track everything i will of course not increase performance each workout so that would indicate that there is some overtraining involved. Sometimes one can get to lost in the volume stuff that Mike and colleagues preach, and also the talk they have about pump and soreness also being important that you forget performance increase being the most important. Im not bashing them at all, i like them a lot, but their methods are just one way to approach it, and when you look at their results and their clients, they cannot even compare to the results a Martin Berkhan gets with an opposite approach.
That was a lot of questions and hopefully corona is making you have some more free time that makes you able to answer the questions 🙂 all the best to you and thank you once again for taking the time to answer questions, and also for all the information and knowledge you provide.
Merry X-mas
Karl
Seems like the last question did not get added. So i will just go ahead and add it :p
You have written about different muscle groups can tolerate or/and respond to different volume/frequencies. Is this something you still apply to yourself and your clients and what have you seen in terms of being “optimal” that different from muscle groups. Side delts for example can often tolerate more training then say chest etc. Would be cool to hear what ranges of volume/frequency you think can be optimal for different muscle groups. Thanx again.
Borge
Quite the contrary, the number of clients have increased tremendously these last couple of months – especially now that I am not going to work for MyRevolution anymore (which I announced on the podcast a couple of days ago).
To answer all of these questions in depth would require me at least 2hrs to discuss properly, so you can probably understand that since this is my job and what puts food on the table for me and my family, I’m not going to be able to answer you here in the comments section of one of my articles on my blog.
Merry Christmas to you, too 🙂
Karl
Thats lovely, you deserve it.
Completely understand, i got carried away and asked away. Are you still going to do the podcast? if so, feel free to use the questions if you guys run out of things to talk about.
As i told you before, you should start your own podcast. I should really start one myself and try to get people on since im just such a nerd and have so many questions.
In regards to volume and especially hypertrophy. Do you have any good books you recommend? so i can have some fun reading during x-mas time.
Thank you once again.
Borge
I am starting my own podcast, yes.
Anything by Chris Beardsley, he’s the most up to date IMO and you will see many similarities in what I recommend (e.g. 15-25 effective reps as a good range to aim for).
Solis
“15-25 “effective reps” (yes, I know this terminology is /flawed and criticized/)”
In which way?
Borge
Not sure I understand the question? You understand the terminology?
Solis
I meant to ask in what way is the effective reps concept flawed and criticized. What are the flaws and what criticisms have been made against it?
Borge
https://www.strongerbyscience.com/effective-reps/
The current and most prominent promoter of the concept is Chris Beardsley: https://medium.com/@SandCResearch/what-is-the-minimum-number-of-stimulating-reps-in-a-workout-that-will-cause-hypertrophy-8ddb487e4cdb
Solis
@Karl Assuming that James’ recommendations are based on the same studies that Lyle has reviewed before (I’m guessing so since the optimal sets given are identical) then those studies were unlikely to be close to true muscular failure. But Borge’s recommendations are, so that explains the apparent disconnect.
Andy
Hey Borje,
I’m an intermediate and I noticed that if I do more than 4 hard sets (0 RIR and long rest of at least 2-3 min) in a session I get a huge performance drop. Here is a rep example on curls using same weight for all sets: 12, 11, 10, 9, 4. This always happens for almost all bodyparts no matter how hard I try to push on the 5th set, how well rested I am or how good my nutrition is.
If i take creatine I can go for multiple hard sets within a session without a huge performance drop between two sets. Here is an example of curls again using same weight on all 5 sets: 13, 12, 11, 10, 9, 8, 7, 6, 5, 4.
Is there anything in the literature about this? My guess is that I am fast twitch dominant and my muscles run out of ATP after a couple of hard sets. And if I take creatine I can get more quality sets per muscle in a given session. Can this be the explanation?
Borge
Yes, and this is typically why people take creatine in the first place 🙂
Hernan
Hi Borge,
first of all happy new year!
In the ssd program on the cluster weeks (7,8,9) in the example it says only 1 set, but on the video you talk about 2 x 3-5 cluster sets for intermediate.
So do we go just with 1 set or 2 x 3-5?
When you say 2 x 3-5 are you saying for example set 1 (5+5+5+5+5) 2/3 min rest , set 2 (5+5+5+4) for example?
Thanks again for all your help!
Borge
Yes, a cluster set is a series of sub maximal sets with short rest, so 5+5+5+5 is 1 set.
Hernan
Thanks! So for the intermediate on the ssd program do you recommend 1 cluster or 2 cluster on each exercise?
Borge
It’s 1 or 2 depending on the split and your individual work tolerance, I believe this was pretty well explained in the program and videos.
David
Hi Borge,
I read you comment about arms recovering slower. I train my arms twice a week but they don’t grow much. I have done high volume and frequency for long periods and that was never the answer! Have you ever seen a clients arm grow better from not training them directly or training them far less frequently?
Borge
Every single time 😉
Walt
Hi Borge,
I’ve been training with myo-reps and other intensive methods for a long time. So far with very good success, but … although i have many years of experience, i don’t have my recovery management under good control.
It happens to me every now and then that I maneuver myself into an overtraining trap. And then I sit out, train lighter, less and, for the time being, not until failure. After one of my last calf training sessions (which was done in the Myo-Rep style and intensely but relatively easily and with a higher number of reps of 23 – 9 -7) I had sore muscles for 8 days. I was only able to train my calves after 10 days … can you imagine that?
My questions, which have preoccupied me for a long time due to this experience, are:
1. Is Mike Mentzer right after all, if he stretches the break intervals up to 10 days or more? The prerequisite was extremely intensive training or muscle exhaustion. (He justifies this with an extremely slow recovery ability of some individuals). He always claimed that he had a few clients who needed a very long time to recover and therefore only trained once every 12 days (intensely, until positive muscle failure) and gained incredible weight …
Have studies been carried out that only focused on this aspect?
So, not those that compared 1-set training to multi-set training when the units were done three times a week … that doesn’t say that much about recovery ability in my opinion as it was arbitrarily set. But studies that let an experienced athlete train to the point of muscle exhaustion and then gradually extended the recovery times extremely … do you know whether there is reliable material about it?
2. Can I also use Myo-Reps in the following ways, or would you not recommend it:
Example:
1 initial set with 18 reps (relatively light weight)
1 more set of heavier weight – 6 reps
1 last set with even heavier weight 3 reps
The two heavy sets until positive muscle failure and between each set (Myo-Rep-Style) then about 10 seconds break.
Thanks in advance for the answer and also for the consistently good tips and all the help on this page … and of course for Myo-Reps
Best wishes
Walt
Borge
1. If you cause extreme soreness/DOMS, then there is likely an active inflammatory process due to some micro trauma or injury. This should be an outlier, not the rule – so no, I don’t think Mentzer was right. I do think 1x/week training per body part can work for many people, as both experience and some recent frequency studies have shown – but I also think you should manage the training so that you can train each body part with a slightly higher frequency (e.g. every 4-5 days). For you, straight sets with ample rest between sets is probably a more productive way to train, and also lower reps as higher reps requires more recovery time.
Relevant study link: https://peerj.com/articles/5020/
2. Not sure I understand your proposed setup here, please clarify – provide example weights and rest between sets.
Relevant study wrt positive failure: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7725035/
Walt
hello Borge,
thanks for the fast respond. So, I’m sorry that I expressed it in a misleading or imprecise way … I am currently taking a break from training (to regenerate) and wanted to start training again. At the moment I don’t know exactly how to get back into training, so I turned to the “scientific artist formerly known as Borge” (I read that somewhere … hahaha – that’s probably the truth).
This time I try to explain my plan in detail.
So far I have trained according to the old “Reg Park 5 x 5 system”. I like to work the whole body in one session, mostly with basic exercises. I also tried to exercise pretty hard and my goal is hypertrophy. Each work set started with 5 reps per set and a break of about 1 minute between sets. When I got 8 reps per set after a few weeks, I increased the weight and did 5 reps per set again. I got stronger, but …
After 8-10 weeks, I usually had to reduce the training units to two times a week because I did not fully recover and had no more motivation to train. Some of my weights even got lighter again. Then I often did a “strategic deconditioning” – a break of one or two weeks.
Now I want to try something new and do a training routine ONLY with Myo-Reps (as I said, I have already trained Myo-Reps, but rarely and only with special exercises such as biceps curls).
My idea is that ONLY ONE Myo-Rep set with a lighter weight instead of 5 heavier single sets as with the Reg-Park 5 x 5 system doesn’t throw me off track as quickly and that I react better at the first signs of overtraining and can do something about it.
So specifically, I wanted to do a full-body routine (3 – 4 exercises each consisting of only 1 Myo-Rep set) on Mondays, Wednesdays and Fridays.
Since I have always had the feeling at the Myo-Reps to stay below my performance and to be able to do more, my question (precise and hopefully understandable this time) was the following:
A “normal” myo-rep set looked like this, as this example of biceps curls shows:
12 kg x 18 – 5 – 5 – 5 – 5 – 3 (about 10 sec break in between)
After the first 5 and the second 5 were quite easy for me and I COULD do more reps, I thought that AFTER the first repetitions of the set (12 KG x 18 reps) I would simply use more weight for the following reps …
For example like this:
12 kg x 18 – 15 kg x 5 – 15 kg x 5 – 15 kg x 3 (approx. 10 sec break in between)
Don’t worry, I haven’t tried it yet, but could something like this be recommended? Or does that lead to an “overtraining trap” even faster?
Thanks again for your patience and time and the tips on your webpage.
Best wishes, Walt
Borge
“scientific artist formerly known as Borge” hah…yeah, I actually seem to recall something like that 😀
As for the setup, it’s essentially a reverse drop set – and Myo-reps induces fatigue in order to make lighter weights work better, i.e. lower the activation threshold for fast twitch muscle fibers. If you are using heavier loads you are already getting high activation and tension, so doing higher reps and then increasing loads will sort of burn the candle at both ends. I’d rather recommend a reverse pyramid or drop set approach if it was me, but then again – I’m all for experimentation so why not try it and see 🙂
Eddie
Hello Borge, its been a while!
In your Better Chest Training article, you state a preference for light-heavy-medium days as per Zourdos et al. Later in The Optimal Program article, you have medium-light-heavy days as better. Could you clarify that for us? I have some ideas but maybe you can help.
Thanks!
Borge
It’s the exact same sequence. Light before heavy for a good reason, and heavy can potentiate medium – but today I do my programming much simpler and with lower frequency so I honestly don’t think the sequencing matters all that much.
Eddie
That’s what I gathered. Thanks for clearing it up.
Solis
>but today I do my programming much simpler and with lower frequency
Hey Borge, how often do you train each muscle group these days and what’s your programming like? And speaking of frequency, I wanted to hear your current thoughts on how often you think you could train a bodypart if you used myo-reps almost exclusively. Since obviously you can’t train to failure and often at the same time, but myo-rep is sort of in the middle since it’s harder than how most people would train with straight sets (always leaving some reps even when they think they don’t) yet it’s not as hard as going to total failure and holding the isometric and whatever.
Borge
My home training program during lockdowns is quite different, so not very helpful in this context, I think 🙂 When I get back to the gym, I will most likely be doing an upper/lower split over 3 days, i.e. every muscle group every 4-5 days, 2-3 hard sets per muscle group/exercise.
Myo-reps is a very demanding training method, and I have probably underestimated how much recovery is needed for most people. Higher reps and failure training in general requires at least 1-2 more days than lower rep not-to-failure training. So I would train Myo-reps every 4-5.days for a given muscle group, maybe every 3 days if your sleep, nutrition and stress levels are on point.
Robert
Hi Borge,
Dont know if you have covered this before in terms of recovery, but what are your thoughts on Movement prep, stretching, foam rolling, etc.? Are these things important for overall fitness or to mitigate the effects of training? If they are beneficial, when would you do them? Before, after training or off days?
Borge
The effects of these things are surprisingly unimpressive, so I may recommend it on a needs basis but I don’t put much importance on it. A general warm-up (3-5mins of walking/biking/crosstrainer etc) when it’s cold, a few arm and hip rotations, then the specific warm-up for that lift is pretty much all that is needed for most. That being said, some mobility work and specific strengthening exercises can be very helpful if you have various pains or aches – hence why Kneesovertoesguy has become so popular – we are built to move, so some movement is better than none.
Some great resources:
https://www.painscience.com/articles/stretching.php
https://www.painscience.com/articles/mobilizing.php
https://www.painscience.com/articles/does-massage-work.php
David
Hi Borge, long time reader from Italy,
small boned trainee here. what do you think of the following routine for hypertrophy?
Monday:
Split Squat
Single leg deadlift
Dumbbell Benchpress
Pullups
Friday:
Dumbbell Squat or Leg Press
Hip Thrust
Chest Dips
Dumbbell Rows
according to your guidelines it should be 2-4 sets each depending on recovery. Should one day be heavier (6-8 reps) and the other lighter (10-12 reps)?? thank you
Borge
Looks fine to me.
I would try progressing from 15 down to 5 reps via a 2-5% load increase every week, then see what rep range you find to be the most productive. Spend 80% of your training time there, 20% at higher and/or lower reps, e.g. 1 week every 6-8 weeks can be spent doing contrast type loading. Within the same workout, you may also play around with reverse pyramids (10% load drop from set to set) to get both lower and higher reps.
Scott
Hi Borge,
I’d be interested to hear your thoughts on a back training puzzle I have. I understand broadly that horizontal rows and vertical pulls stimulate to higher and lesser extents different regions of the back muscles, but there is also overlap. Say in a session it takes 4 sets of rows to adequately stimulate the “row muscle regions” would following this with verticle pulls to adequatley stimulate the “pull muscle regions with another 4 sets be wise or does this then lead to an over training of the overlappped regions and thus elongated recover? Alternate approaches being 2 sets of rows and 2 sets of pulls, possibly not stimulating regions enough, or 4 sets rows one session and 4 sets of pulls in another. I’m using 4 sets as an example just for required stimulus. As always it’s a volume-frequency type question. Thanks!
Borge
There is some overlap, but there will always be when using compound exercises (e.g. vertical pressing for shoulders vs horizontal pressing for chest), which is why I like staying on the conservative side of the volume spectrum – it allows you more room for error and doesn’t push any single muscle group so far into the fatigue zone that you can’t recover from it and thus makes it a limiting link in the chain.
2-3 sets is a great sweet spot for most people, if you properly manage recovery, nutrition and sleep (and perhaps use some fatigue management techniques or train at 1-2RIR or more), I can argue for 4-5 sets for some people some of the time – but the majority of long-term gains can be had around 2-3 good quality sets, in my humble opinion.
Scott
Thanks Borge, I suppose in that case I might conculde that 2-3 set of rows and 2-3 sets of pulldowns in one session would be enough to cause a hypertrophic/strength response in both muscles regions without doubling recovery for overlapped regions. My concern was mainly with the overlap and is it even necessary to train both back movements in one session, if they are sufficiently similar.
Borge
They are not similar, different planes, different muscles. Pulldowns are great for lats, poor for trapezius and rhomboids, rows poor for lats but great for trapezius (II and III at least) and rhomboids. Rear delts are affected by both movements, but to varying degrees throughout the ROM and only indirectly – in addition to being a muscle group that tolerates slightly more volumes than e.g. the lats…so I think you’re overly concerned about something that is no need to worry about – at least not with those volume ranges 😉
Franknstrength
Hello Mr. Fagerli I’m a big fan of your work and I’m looking for some validation as to how to unfuck my training as I find myself in a recovery ditch with a bad case of the fuckaronditis. What is your current stands on training frequency for sustainability (I know this is highly individual) I had been doing an upper/lower split 4 times per week with great success but with my new job and new girlfriend I find it hard to recover and impractical to go that many times to the gym. I know that you used to recommend full body 3 times per week but I don’t think I can handle that since I train in a home gym and it takes a lot of time and it beats me up. Do you think it would be wise to do an upper lower 3 times per week or even a body part split 3 days? Thanks a lot.
Borge
Train a muscle group every 3-5 days. With factors compromising recovery (sleep, stress, nutrition), once every 7-8 days. Start at a lower volume, such as 2 sets with 1-2RIR, and add volume if you’re not gaining at a decent rate (2-3% load at same reps, or 1 rep at same load).
Jacob
@Borge
regarding to your statement, that biceps & triceps take longer to recover. The study was on untrained athletes. So I guess it would be more appropriate, that these guys could train the biceps & the triceps a lot harder than most other muscle groups, so the recovery phase was even longer. It’s easy to do a very hard set of curls, but to do a very hard and damaging set of squats as untrained male?
Borge
It would if it was only a function of muscle activation, and that this capacity changes dramatically when you get better at lifting weights. Some muscles are just easier to activate, and this is a function of their size. So the larger the muscle group, the harder it is to activate – and thus damage. It is true that compound exercises generally requires less recovery due to peripheral fatigue since the load is distributed over several muscle groups, but then you are also using more muscle mass total which causes more immediate CNS fatigue (but less long-term fatigue, paradoxically).
The reason muscle groups such as biceps and triceps take longer to recover is also related to muscle fiber composition (higher proportion of fast-twitch fibers) and the length-tension relationship.
Jacob
Thanks a lot for your detailed answer Borge. It’s hard to stay conservative with all of the Renaissance Periodization content.
Are your volume recommendations with 3-4 sets 2-3 times per week just for beginners or for intermediate-advanced lifters too? With that volume, I could do a full body program twice a week. But I always thought I would stagnate or loose muscle if I do that.
Do you think striving for rep strength gains is still a solid way to build muscle as an intermediate-advanced lifter? I train for 14 years now with multiple Bavarian records. For around 3-4 years of that time I am more into bodybuilding, but what I see it’s only about doing as much volume as you can all the time regardless of rep strength gains. Every template I see is just judged by volume counting. More is always better. It is a good feeling to read about your stuff Borge.
I ask a lot, but it is really helpful to get grounded by your writing Borge. Good work and thanks for sharing it.
Jacob
Thanks a lot for your detailed answer Borge. It’s hard to stay conservative with all of the Renaissance Periodization content.
Are your volume recommendations with 3-4 sets 2-3 times per week just for beginners or for intermediate-advanced lifters too? With that volume, I could do a full body program twice a week. But I always thought I would stagnate or loose muscle if I do that.
Do you think striving for rep strength gains is still a solid way to build muscle as an intermediate-advanced lifter? I train for 14 years now with multiple Bavarian records. For around 3-4 years of that time I am more into bodybuilding, but what I see it’s only about doing as much volume as you can all the time regardless of rep strength gains. Every template I see is just judged by volume counting. More is always better. It is a good feeling to read about your stuff Borge.
I ask a lot, but it is really helpful to get grounded by your writing Borge. Good work and thanks for sharing it.
Borge
3-4 sets 2-3 times per week is too much for beginners, so that is the recommendation for intermediate-advanced. I start out most at 2-3 sets every 3-5 days, then increase by 1 set if/when that doesn’t do the job (this process might take several months).
If I were to recommend one rep range that would provide the best combination of strength and hypertrophy, it would be 5-8 reps.
Jacob
Thanks! Are you taking clients at the moment Borge? Or is it possible to send you my priorities & goals and get a template? This would be much less time consuming for your (if you don’t take clients at the moment).
Nevertheless, thanks a lot for answering for free.
Sam
Hey Borge,
Do you still think this is a valid set up if someone wanted to stay with full body training.
Day 1: Myo Reps 20-25 3-5x
Day 2: Heavy 4-6 reps 2-4 sets
Days 3: Hypertrophy 10-15 reps 2-3 sets
Rest /repeat full body
If someone was trying to include all those rep ranges or do you think keeping them seperate isn’t needed like we used to think?
I’ve been running that spilt 5-6 days a week for years and years.
I also like Mike Israetel Myo Rep matched sets which gets even even more effective reps as well.
Thank you
Stephan
This program is from muscle insider and written by Stuart Mcroberts. Is that in line with your current approach for training people?
DAY 1
EXERCISE SETS REPS
Squats (w) 2 8
Standing Calf Raises (w) 2 10
Leg Curls (w) 2 8
Bench Presses (w) 2 6
Pulldowns (w) 2 6
Seated Overhead Dumbbell Presses (w) 2 6
Incline Dumbbell Curls (w) 2 6
Crunches 2 10
DAY 2
EXERCISE SETS REPS
(A) Squats (w) 1 20
(B) Straight-Arm Pullovers 1 15
Standing Calf Raises (w) 2 15
Stiff-legged Deadlifts from two inches below knee height (w) 2 6
Parallel Bar Dips (w) 2 6
Seated Row with torso supported (w) 2 6
Dumbbell or Machine Shrugs (w) 2 8
Standing Hammer Curls (w) 2 8
Side Bends (w) 1 10
Borge
Yes. Also check out the Abbreviated Training group on Facebook, where Stuart himself is one of the contributors.
Adomas
Borge! I read your post and most of the comments and answers here. Combine that with my experience and I know some things about bodybuilding but strength training and its principles are a dark forest for me. Could you please help me and explain, how would strength training template may look like? I do not understand how to program myself for powerlifting and I want to know more. Maybe there are some rules?
regards, Adomas
Stephan
Børge I found, that DC Training, especially the 2-way split is exactly what you lay out here as optimum.
Instead of brutal rest pauses to the end you could easily leave 1 rep in the tank or just do 2 hard sets for each exercise. Even stretching isn’t that necessary.
Erik Hans
Hey Borge! If someone only ate at maintenance and in a calorie deficit for years but worked his way up to benching 38 kg dumbbells for six reps and chin-ups with bodyweight + 20 kg for 6 reps without gaining much muscle, could he still get ‘beginners muscle gains’ if he ate in a calorie surplus?
Kind regards,
Erik Hans
Borge
You’re not a beginner anymore, so no – I wouldn’t expect that. The body can build muscle even in a deficit, it just takes more time.
Renné
Hi Børge!
Since all the talk and research lately about stretch mediated hypertrophy I’ve been wondering about applying that to Myo-Reps after the activation Set but I wanted to ask your thoughts about that. I’ve come up with something like this:
1. Activation Set done in a “short” movement (as per your original guidelines, benefitting from the occlusion effect, more metabolic stress and making lighter loads more effective).
2. Subsequent Myo-Reps Sets done in a “lengthened” movement (to benefit more from the stretched mediated hypertrophy, mechanical tension as well as more intra-set volume as we’re generally stronger in lengthened movements, being able to perform more reps).
I didn’t think too hard about the science or all the boring stuff, I just thought that could be a way to make a single Myo-Reps Set even more efficient (cause f*ck volume lol) so that’s why I wanted to ask you. Do you think that could still preserve the core rationale behind Myo-Reps or is just overthinking? Maybe the stretched movement during the Myo-Sets will reduce the occlusion effect gained in the Activation Set? Also, because you’re stronger in the stretched movements you’d probably need to do more than the recommended 3-5 reps in the Myo-Sets, do you think there is any downside to that apart being more careful with recovery?
Example 1:
Activation Set: 60º Bench DB Lateral Raise
Myo-Sets: Cable Lateral Raise with the pulley adjusted so that it will load the delts more in the stretched position
Example 2:
Activation Set: Cable Chest Fly with pulley adjusted to load more of the contracted position
Myo-Sets: Low Incline DB Bench Press
I also want to thank you for all the free info you’ve been giving us all those years, all the articles and the comments here on your blog are very helpful, I’ve been following you and Menno for almost a decade now and you totally changed the way I think about training and exercise in general, without all the dogmas that are forced into us even when you get “formal” education in this industry. I still follow the majority of the core principles you set up in the SSD program with Abel years ago, that’s how solid that was, all the work you put into that course helped us so much. And don’t let all the mainstream bullshit turn you down from sharing your knowledge and beliefs with others, I hope you return to share your work to a wider public (i.e. English speakers) in the future.
Cheers!
Borge
Some muscles respond to stretch-mediated hypertrophy, but not all. Gastrocs, rectus femoris, pecs are the primary ones. One thing to keep in mind, though – is that the muscle will also respond by adding sarcomeres in series, so if you consistently do stretch-oriented movements they will lose effect over time. So rotating in stretch-based movements is a good idea, holding the bottom position on some reps, doing some loaded stretching – fine here and there. So e.g. workout 1: DB Lateral Raise and chest fly, workout 2: cable lateral raise and low incline DB Press.
Thank you for the great feedback. I promise that I will publish a brand new training system and course in 2023, just haven’t decided if I want to do it separately (training, nutrition, lifestyle in one, mindset, psychology and coaching techniques in the other) or all in one yet 🙂
Pasta fresca
Hi Borge,
I am a beginner
I would like to train twice a week in my home Gym
2×6-12 bench Press
2×6-12 bent over barbell row
2×6-12 standing Press
2×6-12 weighted chin ups
2×6-12 weighted Inps
2×6-12 Hammer curl
2×6-12 calf raise
2×6-12 SLDL
1×20 breathing squat
Pasta fresca
Do you think the volume Is too low?